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mikecch
10th March 2011, 12:45
Another fabric besides denim that the Japanese have 'borrowed' and perfected :mrgreen:
All talk regarding our other favourite cotton fabric can come right here!
Pics and detailed info. will be much appreciated too.

Just to start off with, some light reading.
Here's Loopwheeler's interview off their own website:
http://www.loopwheeler.co.jp/en/origin/makeit_w1.html

Or light out-take:

"
Ichigo: These are all vintage sweatshirts, right? How old are they?

Satoshi: They are all made in USA during late 40's - mid 60's. They still look great, don't they?

Ichigo: That's cool. Are they still wearable?

Satoshi: You bet. Just because they were knitted by a machine called "Loopwheel". But they can knit only a meter of fabric per hour. I must say it's awfully inefficient in the light of today's technology.

Ichigo: Do they still use this machine in USA?

Satoshi: No, they don't. Exactly speaking, they'd already scrapped Loopwheel machines in the past. Currently they use only the ones for mass production.

Ichigo: Then, where are sweatshirts of LOOPWHEELER being made?

Satoshi: They are being made here in Japan. Fabric in knitted in Wakayama prefecture.

Ichigo: I see. I wonder if I could see the whole process.

Satoshi: OK, let's go. I will guide you through the production.

Ichigo: Nice looking town. I came here for the first time, but mountains are nearby, very much calming place.

Satoshi: This town looks a bit rustic now, but in the past, this place had been the biggest factory area in Japan for circular knitting. There are still a few factories running Loopwheel machines.

Satoshi: This is the factory of Kanekichi co. They are knitting Loopwheel fabric for us.

Ichigo: Are they winding yarn here?

Satoshi: Yes, this machine is re-winding yarn to make it suitable for knitting machine. The first stage of knitting.

Ichigo: I've never seen this kind of machine. Rotating very slowly...... Is this a Loopwheel?

Satoshi: That's right. It's rorating 24 rounds per minuite, knitting fabric. It's so slow that actually you can count it.

Ichigo: I see, is that factor making soft fabric?

Satoshi: Being slow means no excess tension. Fabric is being made with very much relaxed yarn, making fabric with softness which comes from cotton yarn itself.

Ichigo: All these machines are connected to a single motor, right?

Satoshi: Yes, that's right. In Japanese, Loopwheel machine is called "Bagworm knitting machine". You can see machines hanging from wooden pole just like a bunch of bagworms. Apart from slow rotating speed, another important factor is that knitted fabric would go down just by gravity, no pulling down, thus making fabric with no excess tension, soft with a lot of air knitted in together with yarn.

Ichigo: White cotton dusts everywhere like silkworm factory. Looks very soft and.... beautiful.

Satoshi: It's just a dust for us, but maybe you get a different impression, Ichigo?

Ichigo: I've been thinking about "snow".

Satoshi: "Snow"...... actually, the image of snow is the right connection to the next place we go, Yamagata prefecture.......

Ichigo: A lot of yarn going into this machine.

Satoshi: This is the latest Sinker machine. Invented in mid 60's, during big global economic glowth, where the priority was "the mass production". Currently, this machine is used all over the world in majority. When compared with Loopwheel, bigger diameter, 240 rounds per minuite, 10 times faster, 10 meters per hour, less needs for maintenance.

Ichigo: It makes a lot, but not a soft fabric.

Satoshi: Exactly. It might feel like soft at first, but keep on wearing and washing, you would be lucky if you could think it's still soft after 3 years.

Ichigo: This is a funny looking setting. What's in these milk bottles?

Satoshi: Lubricating oil. You see the stick wrapped in white cloth on top of bottles. Osmotic pressure keeps the cloth always a bit wet with oil, giving it to the yarn to enable smooth knitting. A wonderful invention of Kanekichi to make a better products using only old conventional methods. I think it's very important to consume time and labour, to try to make it better.

Satoshi: This is a roll of fabric knitted by Loopwheel. Final process at Kanekichi.

Ichigo: How many meters in a roll?

Satoshi: 22-23 meters per roll, worth 17-18 pieces of sweatshirt. In a day, though, only 11-12 meters per machine, 8-9 pieces of sweatshirt.

Ichigo: Oh, it's making a single sweatshirt very valuable.

Satoshi: Well, you can say so. But it was normal in the past. Nowadays, a very few people bother with this inefficient production, almost a level of cultural heritage.

Ichigo: We should keep on making good quality things even if it's taking a lot of time and labour.

Satoshi: We are determined to hand this over to the next generation. There is only Japan left.

"

mikecch
10th March 2011, 12:52
Video of loop-wheeling process:

http://vimeo.com/1484676

More literature:
http://www.tezomeya.com/more/kanekichi.html

hippopatamus
10th March 2011, 16:45
yes yes yes.... i like this thread

mikecch
10th March 2011, 22:11
Let's see that awesome TFH T-shirt of yours hippo :wink:

obbigood
10th March 2011, 22:15
good thread here, mike!
I have been trying to search for loopwheel info too :)

hippopatamus
11th March 2011, 02:49
Let's see that awesome TFH T-shirt of yours hippo :wink:

haha ill take some pic later

hippopatamus
11th March 2011, 03:26
sorry for the multiple pic , im trying to give the best possible angle to show the loopwheeled fabric itself

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/hippopatamus666/IMG_0005.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/hippopatamus666/IMG_0009.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/hippopatamus666/IMG_0010.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/hippopatamus666/IMG_0003.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/hippopatamus666/IMG_0007.jpg

mikecch
11th March 2011, 07:04
good thread here, mike!
I have been trying to search for loopwheel info too :)

Any luck with finding a better sweater for the OGL sweat?
A loop-wheeled OGL sweat would be awesome!



http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/hippopatamus666/IMG_0003.jpg


Love that multi-coloured triple stitch.

***

Some SDA contribution:
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9653/p3070007.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7688/p3070004g.jpg

I would really like to learn more about the differences between loop-wheeled and non-looped fabrics, maybe a visual identification method?
So far the difference I've noticed is in the hand of the fabric.

obbigood
11th March 2011, 15:50
^haha, I hope :)

so, apart from FH tees, which are really loopwheeled, any other brands?
How to feel by hand, Mike?

Max Power
11th March 2011, 15:56
^I'm curious, too. I got the impression, that you have to feel this fabric, to really understand it. Same as with jap denim.

ThinFinn
11th March 2011, 15:56
james - I'd say that the sweaters from SDA are loopwheeled as well...will up pics of my grey SDA sweater in a couple of hours!

beautiful_FrEaK
11th March 2011, 16:03
your SDA sweater is definitley loopwheeled :-)

hippopatamus
11th March 2011, 16:25
akhh mike i cant see ur pic? whats wrong with my computer

ThinFinn
11th March 2011, 16:26
your SDA sweater is definitley loopwheeled :-)
i know i know... ;-)




I would really like to learn more about the differences between loop-wheeled and non-looped fabrics, maybe a visual identification method?
So far the difference I've noticed is in the hand of the fabric.

well some months ago, there was a discussion over loop-wheeled and none-looped fabrics over at sufu...i'll try if i can find it again and then i'll quote in here!


for now i only got this (super makro!) to feed your hunger :-)

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/7275/p3113923.jpg

http://img858.imageshack.us/img858/3151/p3113924.jpg

http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/2484/p3113927.jpg

mikecch
12th March 2011, 08:14
^haha, I hope :)

so, apart from FH tees, which are really loopwheeled, any other brands?
How to feel by hand, Mike?

Hey James, so far I've found the loopwheeled stuff to have a softer, heavier hand.
The surface also remains smoother, with less pilling, after wash & wear.
I guess to put it simply, loop-wheeled sweats and Ts age much more gracefully (& slowly) IMO.

Although I don't know how much of these characteristics is contributed by the type of cotton used. ???

Regardless, I've decided from now on all my cotton tops will be loop-wheeled - quality over quantity concept :P


akhh mike i cant see ur pic? whats wrong with my computer

Hi hippo, now that you're in China, you won't be able to see many of the pics that are hosted on photo sharing websites :(



http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/2484/p3113927.jpg

Damn close TF!
I don't even know what I'm looking at anymore :P

ThinFinn
13th March 2011, 22:48
Damn close TF!
I don't even know what I'm looking at anymore :P
Well mate, that's how the inside of my SDA sweater looks like ;)...

mikecch
14th March 2011, 02:27
^ I find it interesting that SDA chose to leave the fabric's inside in the original ribbed state and didn't nap it much, unlike BR, McCoy's, TFH, etc...
I wonder what this will mean in terms of warmth and durability?

obbigood
14th March 2011, 10:03
I have got an uniqlo sweater, I have wear it before during a WAYTD. Ah...the one with Obbi Good Label print. The design is the same as SDA (though I dont wanna say 'copy'), both Japanese made. I'll try to take some pic and show, maybe we can spot some differences from visual as we all know Uniqlo is definitely not loopwheeled.

Wat about Samurai Tees btw?

hippopatamus
14th March 2011, 11:45
I have got an uniqlo sweater, I have wear it before during a WAYTD. Ah...the one with Obbi Good Label print. The design is the same as SDA (though I dont wanna say 'copy'), both Japanese made. I'll try to take some pic and show, maybe we can spot some differences from visual as we all know Uniqlo is definitely not loopwheeled.

Wat about Samurai Tees btw?

samurai tees i dont think its loopwheeled ,maybe the same with IH tees just plain heavy 100% cotton i say

obbigood
14th March 2011, 11:59
I see, thanks!

Hippo, u have got FH tees right?
I noticed my friend's FH tees has got a full sleeve underneath. Er...usually, the edges of the sleeve is turned inside for stitching, but for FH tees, you wont see the turned-in edge, seems like it is a 'whole' sleeve.
Ah...just like full-lined backpockets but this time it is on sleeves.

Just wondering if the SDA tee is the same?

hippopatamus
14th March 2011, 12:15
yes i do...luckily im wearing it now but sadly im in a low light so i cant see it for sure , but a feel test , the edge feel quite the same with the inside (doesnt feel folded or doubled) but ill confirmed it when i in a better light . sda loopwheeled tees would be next on my wishlist ,want to compare it with fh loopwheeled tees is it the same or different

mikecch
14th March 2011, 14:11
Most SDA Ts are now made in China!
I think it's been that way for 2 years now.
The fabric is still very similar to the older makes... although they have a seam-less tube body, I'm not sure if the fabric is loop-wheeled at all !?

Edit: I think only some of their limited edition Ts are loop-wheeled.

And also SDA's new 'light' sweats - contains 12% polyester, so I gather the fabric ain't loop-wheeled either.

hippopatamus
14th March 2011, 15:19
wait wait wait? their shirts which state loopwheeled isnt loopwheeled? post some pic mike , although i cant see it ,i still can picturize in my mind what are you guys talking about

mikecch
14th March 2011, 15:26
^ Hey hippo, AFAIK only some of their Ts are made of loop-wheeled fabric.

Can you link me to where they are described as loop-wheeled?
I'd assume if they say it's loop-wheeled, then it is.
I'm not saying they're bad Ts - I love mine actually :smile:

Edit: I see BiG listed the regular (cheaper) SDA Ts as loop-wheeled...maybe I'm wrong then, but definitely the standard made-in-China SDA T is not as heavy as TFH or Cushman, etc Ts.

hippopatamus
14th March 2011, 15:43
yup im refering to BIG too....http://blueingreensoho.com/site/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=5747&category_id=&manufacturer_id=12&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=28 and http://blueingreensoho.com/site/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=8381&category_id=&manufacturer_id=12&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=28

dont know why the 1st link were cheaper , maybe because of old stock? but they are not in the sale list or is it not loopwheeled?

mikecch
14th March 2011, 15:56
^ I'm not really sure mate...

I browse the different Rakuten stores a lot, and the Japanese stores and distributors are usually very careful with their wording (it's all in the details over there :P)
When a T or sweat is made of loop-wheeled fabric (as in, made from late 1800's/early 1900's loop-wheeling machines), they are sure to put it in the description...

I just can't seem to find a description from a Japanese vendor that states the average 4000 to 5000 yen SDA T-shirt is loop-wheeled.
I may need to ask Naoki!

Edit: Sent e-mail to Naoki, may need to e-mail SDA next.

ThinFinn
14th March 2011, 16:10
this is what kiya said about loopwheeled some day!


Loopwheeled fabric is NOT the same as a seamless tube fabric.
about 75% of brands that say their fabric is "loopwheeled" are either flat out lying or don't know what loopwheeling is.
The machine itself is quite rare, extremely slow, and is finicky in the way it works. True loopwheeled fabric is extremely strong, soft, and can be very very heavy in weight compare to a normal (and even most vintage) tees.


Loopwheeled Fabric!

I've seen a spike of interest in loopwheeled fabrics recently so i decided to dig up a few photographs i took of a machine for those that haven't seen what a loopwheeler machine looks like.

There are some serious misconceptions about this fabric.
Just because a fabric has tube construction does not make it loopwheeleed. Also, i'd say that about 50% of the fabric which i've felt and has been marked as loopwheeled was NOT actually loopwheeled, it's just tube body constructed fabric. It's insane to me that companies get away with advertising that their fabric is one thing when it's not, but i'm convinced that these companies themselves were fooled by their factories or textile suppliers into thinking that the fabric was really loopwheeled.

Kobayashi-san (president of Flat Head) is the only person in the world that owns loopwheeling machines which are capable doing a certain weight and feel of micro-ribbed fabric, the Japanese brand Loopwheeler actually buys their micro-ribbed fabric from Kobayashi. Flat Head are still the only clothing company i've ever come across which owns up to 65% of the machines which weave all their fabrics where as all other clothing lines don't actually own any machines, they lease or outsource production to factories.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/kiyababzani/Self%20Edge%20Graphics/IMG_2112.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/kiyababzani/Self%20Edge%20Graphics/IMG_2113.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/kiyababzani/Self%20Edge%20Graphics/IMG_2109.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/kiyababzani/Self%20Edge%20Graphics/IMG_2111.jpg

FOXY
14th March 2011, 18:28
similar to the whole narrow shuttle loom discussion for "authentic" denim are we here talking about "vintage" machinery. the principle of the loop and actually the mechanical process of forming the loop for knitted fabrics has not changed since.

in the context of "loopwheeled" knits it is almost impossible to tell the difference for non-experts. more important is the rarity and in-efficiency of the machines.

FOXY
14th March 2011, 18:31
because of slow machine speed - compared to modern day knitting machines - you can use different yarns and yarns with different finishing.

FOXY
14th March 2011, 18:39
here are pictures of my LOOPWHEELER hooded sweat:

http://i53.tinypic.com/rit9iq.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/282nfit.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/29ar2bs.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/30up8hh.jpg

FOXY
14th March 2011, 18:40
http://i55.tinypic.com/2lvo4tf.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/1ioies.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/2e3v1w1.jpg

FOXY
14th March 2011, 18:41
here a LOOWHEELER tee:

http://i56.tinypic.com/23kckf9.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/spezp2.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/315lnhy.jpg

FOXY
14th March 2011, 18:43
http://i53.tinypic.com/28mpkdh.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/xlwgmx.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/rvll3d.jpg

FOXY
14th March 2011, 18:56
and here are the "usual suspects" - The Flat Head for sure and, most probably, Samurai, too...

http://i56.tinypic.com/2a0kymt.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/2cxfgcy.jpg

FOXY
14th March 2011, 18:57
http://i56.tinypic.com/149uiq8.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/2wf4g0z.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/2ngd4e1.jpg

FOXY
14th March 2011, 18:59
in most cases you will not be able to tell the difference.
you have to look at the brand, the price and you need to be willing to believe it...

ThinFinn
14th March 2011, 19:37
^great posts there FOXY!...
thanks for sharing your collection/knowledge!

hippopatamus
14th March 2011, 19:41
nice collection you got there foxy ,very nice

FOXY
14th March 2011, 19:45
easy - when HK/Take 5 is 2hrs away and Japan is just a 5hrs flight...

mikecch
14th March 2011, 23:05
I think Kiya's post was on point in that a tube-body (seamless body construct) doesn't necessarily mean it is loop-wheeled...I have lots of $10 singlets that are seamless :biggrin:

Thanks for sharing FOXY...definitely the weave on the T-shirts you have (and the weave on my loop-wheeled TFH, Cushman's, BR's, etc) are visually indistinguishable from some of the 'normal' cotton fabrics, at least to me.
I agree with the price-point comment...if it's too cheap, it probably ain't loop-wheeled!
The last time I checked, unbranded loop-wheeled T-shirt blanks are around 4000 to 5000 yen retail - price goes up from there if it's dyed, printed, etc.

Samurai says that their T-shirt fabric is made on 'circular knitting' machines - is this a loop-wheeler?
Maybe b_F can ask Sandy? :)

It is interesting to see TFH's loop-wheeling machine again, thanks TF!
...
I guess when we ask for loop-wheeled fabrics, we have to also consider whether this loop-wheeled fabric was done on vintage or modern machines?
Kinda like selvedge denim I suppose.
But is there a difference if the settings are adjusted properly on more modern machines?

FOXY
15th March 2011, 01:28
machine knits can be predominately classified as weft or warp knits.
difference is the direction the loops are created.
weft knits are done on circular machines and will create the loops from an "endless' thread/yarn and hand the loops into each other horizontally - these tubes will be cut open after the knitting knitting and "set" straight to form knitted fabric by the yard (just like woven fabric) or in tubes of different diameter for tees like you know them.
the majority of machine knitted fabrics are weft knits.
the difference between "loopwheel machines" and modern weft knitting machines is mostly the fact that these machines are extinct, antique and "in-efficient". the construction of the loops are virtually the same.
because of the speed of machine (very slow) you twist, "texturize"and "finish" the yarns differently than on modern machines - getting a softer hand-feel or construction if desired.

FOXY
15th March 2011, 01:31
...you can twist the yarn differently - looser, harrier, fuzzier, softer, etc...

FOXY
15th March 2011, 01:34
let me check if I find some basic pictures to show the basic construction of weft knitted loops and maybe I can find some textbook abstracts on loopwheel machines, but during my days at the polytechnics (garment engineering) those loopwheel machines were not discussed as they are nearly extinct and considered highly in-efficient in comparison...

mikecch
15th March 2011, 02:58
^ Thanks for knowledge FOXY.

Could modern weft knitting machines be programmed to go more slowly and have the same texture/finish as vintage loop-wheelers?

FOXY
15th March 2011, 06:04
you could, but you would have to consider at least 2 points:

1) this eaquals commercial suicide - running expensive machines at segnificantly reduced speed vs. fully ammortized ancient machinery with potentially high maintenance cost (all spare parts for loopwheel machines have to reproduced, etc.)

2) guiding of the yarns through modern machines has put different requirements on the yarns than for loopwheel machines. loopwheel machines run slower and probably will put less stress on the actual yarn, consequently you could work with less hard twised yarns, less "finished" yarns and a softer texture. modern machines will probaly put more stress on the yarns (partly because of the speed, but also because the yarn technology has made significant improvements since the good old days).

FOXY
15th March 2011, 06:10
please consider that there is very little difference in the appearance of the resulting knits - you can choose the right yarns and machine settings (including speed) and you will achieve a very close appearance and handfeel on modern machines.

the main selling point of loopwheeled knits - in my eyes - is the novelty and rarity of the machines. (I do not intend diss the fact that the handfeel for loopwheeled knits can be superior...)
and, as such, we are looking at a similar scenario compared to antique, narrow shuttle loom woven denim - again made in Japan.

mikecch
15th March 2011, 08:15
^ Ah, I see.
Nice to have a textiles professional on board :)

obbigood
15th March 2011, 12:22
Thanks FOXY for such in-depth knowledge :)

So does it mean that it is near impossible to distinguish a loopwheeled and non-loopwheel fabric?
Pardon me, I seriously couldn't notice any differences between your Loopwheel sweat and my cheap Uniqlo sweat.

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss311/obbigoodfrance/P3152980.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss311/obbigoodfrance/P3152981.jpg

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss311/obbigoodfrance/P3152983.jpg

Inside
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss311/obbigoodfrance/P3152982.jpg

The process of loopwheeling can be easily searched and googled. I think what we all wanna know is how to see the differences :)
Just like denim where we can somewhat identify its made by some close-up shots.

FOXY
15th March 2011, 12:53
I am afraid, but for us amateurs it would be virtually impossible to tell the difference other than by knowing/believing that the supplier/manufacturer labels/sources accordingly or actually owns these machines.

I don't know of any obvious and distinctive criteria - but, hey, I don't know erverything. I am pretty sure that there are some japanese machine operators/technicians out there that have gathered enough experience over the years so they can claim to be able to tell the difference within a reasonable accuracy.

(let me see if I can get some textbook info and bring some more facts to the table.)

hippopatamus
15th March 2011, 13:52
Foxy please enlight us with this knowledge how to spot the different between the real and fake loopwheeled .my amateur eyes and touch honestly i cant see/feel the different

obbigood
15th March 2011, 14:31
I am afraid, but for us amateurs it would be virtually impossible to tell the difference other than by knowing/believing that the supplier/manufacturer labels/sources accordingly or actually owns these machines.

I don't know of any obvious and distinctive criteria - but, hey, I don't know erverything. I am pretty sure that there are some japanese machine operators/technicians out there that have gathered enough experience over the years so they can claim to be able to tell the difference within a reasonable accuracy.

(let me see if I can get some textbook info and bring some more facts to the table.)

Yeah, appreciated your enlightenment thus far :)
I guess we can only rely on product descriptions and pricing to gauge before we purchase (on the internet)
Please let us know more if you find anything, FOXY :)


Since we discuss about these new Japanese-made T-shirts, sweaters...
Wat about old production of American Tee-shirts, like Champion, Hanes, Whitesville....?

FOXY
15th March 2011, 14:46
since the Loop Wheel machine represents the basic concept I would say it is safe to claim that most American tee and sweat knit manufactures of a certain heritage have used these machines at one point.

unfortunately, I can not tell you the exact point in time when they replaced the inefficient loopwheel machines with modern ones. I would guess sometime in the 1960's, maybe?
(certainly earlier compared to Cones switiching from narrow shuttle looms to modern day looms...)

FOXY
16th March 2011, 06:02
here is some more advanced but interesting reading about the historical and technological advances of knits in the UK/European context:
http://www.tx.ncsu.edu/jtatm/volume5issue4/vo5_issue4_abstracts.htm

go for the PDF version of this article:
Functional to Fashionable: Knitwear’s Evolution Throughout the Last Century and into the Millennium

obbigood
16th March 2011, 15:41
^ thanks FOXY, just finished 1950s' developement :)
Will continue later.

mikecch
17th March 2011, 06:35
Just had clarification that only select SDA T-shirts are made from genuine old-fashioned 'loop-wheeled' fabric.

ThinFinn
17th March 2011, 20:48
^ONLY SDA? so what about those other brands like TFH and others?...

mikecch
17th March 2011, 22:53
^ TF... so far as I can tell, most TFH T-shirts are loop-wheeled.
The dudes at 2nd assured me they were, and they are more expensive by a good 50% compared to the other brands too.

For Samurai, I only know that they are advertised as such...I've never actually handled a Samurai T.
Maybe we can have some knowledge from b_F?

I'm not sure about Toyo's T-shirts (BR, Cheswick, Whitesville, etc), since I haven't handled or looked into them for a couple of years now.
The Cheswick stuff are definitely not, since they're made in Canada using good quality, but not loop-wheeled, fabrics.
(They're made by a Chinese-Canadian uniform factory :P)

Pherrow's and Dubbleworks are mostly not loop-wheeled, whilst Warehouse mostly is.
(This is according to a shopkeeper.)

I have tracked down some genuinely loop-wheeled T-shirt blanks:
http://www.craftcafe.co.jp/tezomeya/ot-kin.html
They would be great if anybody wants to screen-print their own Ts.
This workshop also dyes them in various natural plant colours :)

ThinFinn
18th March 2011, 00:53
^ TF... so far as I can tell, most TFH T-shirts are loop-wheeled.
The dudes at 2nd assured me they were, and they are more expensive by a good 50% compared to the other brands too.

.........

I have tracked down some genuinely loop-wheeled T-shirt blanks:
http://www.craftcafe.co.jp/tezomeya/ot-kin.html
They would be great if anybody wants to screen-print their own Ts.
This workshop also dyes them in various natural plant colours :)

Thx a lot for checking mate!
And i think this would be a great thing for you guys at OGL for printing some nice T's in future ;-)
What ya think James?...

obbigood
18th March 2011, 10:04
^as soon as mikecch posted the link, immediately I getting Singapore side to send inquires to them, LOL!!


I have Samurai Tee, but I dun think i can feel the difference without comparison.
I think the only way to find out is to buy another TFH tees....and keep 'feeling' them :)

mikecch
18th March 2011, 11:32
^ would be interested in some loop-wheeled OGL tees.

hippopatamus
21st March 2011, 11:27
^ would be interested in some loop-wheeled OGL tees.

NOW thats what im thinkin too! OGL loopwheeled tees.


and guys i have another questions : do ironheart ever produce loopwheeled tees? i mean ever?

obbigood
21st March 2011, 14:34
^thanks for the expectations, my friends :)
Personally, we do hope for some loopwheel productions too. However, it may not be worthwhile for the mass consumer point of view, because of the costing.
Honestly, getting loopwheeled tees printed is going to be alot higher in costing which will result in higher selling price, unless we have our own loopwheel machine :lol:

But we are not ruling it out yet, we like to try the impossible :)

More stuff about OGL can refer to the affiliate threads, lets get back to this 'mystical' loopwheel topics.


@hippo, I think IH doesn't have loopwheel tees (correct me if i'm wrong)
so far, more notably and promised is TFH and some SDA.

hippopatamus
21st March 2011, 16:00
True View from marketing POV but yea trying isnt a crime right? but as long you give us a discount code that tees will gone in second i promise that lol
who knows loopwheeler want a collabo with you guys

mikecch
22nd March 2011, 13:24
Another intro. to the loop-wheel topic:
http://www.kanekichi-turi.com/turitop.html
(have to click "next")

mikecch
22nd March 2011, 13:38
Oh, and actually, The Flat Head does not state that their regular T-shirts (THC series) are loop-wheeled, merely tube-bodied:
http://tfh.flat-head.com/modules/flat_head/index.php?content_id=233

Their more expensive stuff are stated to be loop-wheeled though:
http://tfh.flat-head.com/modules/flat_head/index.php?content_id=293

And also their Glory Park stuff:
http://tfh.flat-head.com/modules/glory_park/index.php?content_id=118

???
Now I'm really confused.
Edit: (And 2nd has confirmed this...)

Looks like we'll have to read the fine print carefully, even if buying from our favourite brands!

Also, Samurai's T-shirt fabric is made on something called 台丸機, which they claim is similar to a loop-wheeler (machine is old, rare, and low-output.)

obbigood
22nd March 2011, 14:22
Also, Samurai's T-shirt fabric is made on something called 台丸機, which they claim is similar to a loop-wheeler (machine is old, rare, and low-output.)

ee...this is something new to read :)

This is made from 台丸機
http://en.item.rakuten.com/2nd/sj-sjst10-04-gd/

But this is the best I can search, any links showing how 台丸機 works?

mikecch
23rd March 2011, 08:55
^ I'll try and find some links tonight.

I just received e-mail from a couple of dealers in Japan.
Apparently not all Buzz Rickson's sweat and Ts aren't loop-wheeled either!
Some are loop-wheeled, some are "cotton sinker".

Edit: I think there is some confusion in the definition of loop-wheel that Western retailers have created?
What we think of as 'loop-wheeled' both here and on SuFu refers largely to 'circular knitting machines', whereas the "hanging knitting machines" that is the true vintage loop-wheeler is one of the specific subtypes.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

mikecch
23rd March 2011, 11:37
Short page of info:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23565151/87/Loop-wheel-Circular-Knitting-Machines

mikecch
23rd March 2011, 12:13
ee...this is something new to read :)

This is made from 台丸機
http://en.item.rakuten.com/2nd/sj-sjst10-04-gd/

But this is the best I can search, any links showing how 台丸機 works?

Hey James, I came up with these after a quick search:
http://www.vcnet.fukui.fukui.jp/~knit-k/gaiyou/gaiyou.html
http://www.matsuzaki-mt.co.jp/seihin_1.html

Apparently there are lots of different types of circular knitters floating around, the Daimaru knitter being one of them.
Before WWII, there were more than 2000 Daimaru knitters in Osaka alone!
Today they are concentrated in Wakayama, being one of several types of loop-wheeling machines.

obbigood
23rd March 2011, 14:21
Edit: I think there is some confusion in the definition of loop-wheel that Western retailers have created?
What we think of as 'loop-wheeled' both here and on SuFu refers largely to 'circular knitting machines', whereas the "hanging knitting machines" that is the true vintage loop-wheeler is one of the specific subtypes.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

This is wat I am suspecting too as I have search through most by googling 台丸機, and guess wat, almost all the result on T-shirts points to Samurai tee.
So from the Samurai tee links, either they stated that the fabric made from Damairu Knitter, Hanging Knitter or Round-table which are the translation 台丸機.
There might be possible that the 'known' loopwheeled machine for Loopwheeler and TFH may not be the same as the Damairu Knitter, which MAY be the true loopwheel machine.

My statement may not be true, just what I have gather from my own perspertive :)

mikecch
23rd March 2011, 14:51
^ This topic is confusing me, haha.
It's interesting too that many of the textile companies which own the hanging knitters also own the Daimarus.

I've also e-mailed a few of Japan's largest denim shops (as in, dudes who have multiple shops), and each have given me different stories regarding brands such as BR, SDA, etc...
It is possible that there is no consensus as to what is loop-wheeled? (or rather, no strict definition?)

Indeed from my recent conversations, a lot of the items we consider as loop-wheeled both here and on SuFu seem to come from slightly more modern circular knitters.
One of the shop owners even told me that if the fabric is made well, there is little difference between the different types of circular knitters - the soft hand, pilling resistance, etc are all there.

obbigood
23rd March 2011, 15:18
How the Daimaru (台丸機 which means 'Circular knitting') machine work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGRNtjeVRTw

How the 'known' Loopwheel (吊り編み機 which means 'Hanging knitting') machine work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McBq1Zi4kXI&feature=related


As we can see, they are 2 different operations.
From searching, 台丸機 (Circular) basically results in all Samurai t-shirts. I think we can concluded that this is how Samurai make their T-shirts.

And if we search Loopwheeler, we can see the same type of machine use in the 2nd video. We can be sure those stating 'loopwheeled' t-shirts are made this way.

In summary, there are really 2 types of such vintage knitting operation machines. Both producing results slowly and have same characteristics. Just different operating manner.

hippopatamus
23rd March 2011, 16:24
now this topic has become deeper and yes mike its kinda confusing....read a sec

mikecch
24th March 2011, 09:16
^^ Thanks for the videos James!

mikecch
24th March 2011, 12:11
Oh, btw, confirmation from a very reliable source...
Buzz Rickson's sweats are made on these "knotters" or cotton sinkers:
http://www.matsuzaki-mt.co.jp/seihin_1.html

Looks like Daimaru!

woody
24th March 2011, 13:24
What about RMC tees out of curiosity?

mikecch
24th March 2011, 13:49
^ IIRC Toy's McCoy and The Real McCoy (including Joe McCoy, Buco, etc) use hanging loop-wheeler fabric.

Haven't asked anyone to confirm though.
Might send an e-mail to Mr. Lofgren to ask about Toy's.
Maybe someone can ask Lewis about RMC?

woody
24th March 2011, 13:51
I can take some macro photos or something of my two? From what i have gathered, though, they aren't much help

FOXY
24th March 2011, 18:10
I went through my closet and found some Joe McCoy/Real McMoy and Warehouse and Buzz Rickson Tees

http://i55.tinypic.com/a9mlaw.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/2yplp5h.jpg

FOXY
24th March 2011, 18:23
let's start with Joe McCoy...

http://i52.tinypic.com/hrym2c.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/ae47rl.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/3310nxl.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/23j5w2g.jpg

FOXY
24th March 2011, 18:35
this is McCoy's Vintage Champion Tee (made in the USA - most certainly not a loopwheeled tee)

http://i54.tinypic.com/m77wok.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/6p6j5c.jpg

the 2 knits next to each other

http://i55.tinypic.com/n49ohu.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/35asx79.jpg

FOXY
24th March 2011, 18:48
Warehouse

http://i55.tinypic.com/2my9s20.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/2mw6u09.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/xt24w.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/219rt5s.jpg

FOXY
24th March 2011, 18:59
Buzz Rickson
http://i54.tinypic.com/a1aj9.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/xnr8rc.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/2ezh6j7.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/15x47l0.jpg

hippopatamus
25th March 2011, 02:49
foxy you do have an awesome tees collection

FOXY
25th March 2011, 06:30
honestly - my favourite tees are American Apparel: cheap & dirty - exactly right for stupid prints - nice modern fit

(don't like their CEO's reputation and the financial mess he created, but I kinda like the fact that his main supplier/factory did empoly illegal immigrants...)

woody
25th March 2011, 09:00
wow... I'll take the navy Toys McCoy tee thanks ;-)

kayodic
31st March 2011, 13:58
hey guys, i have SDA tees but i'm still not sure whether they're loopwheeled ones or not. i'll post some pictures later tonight, hope y'all can help me :)

FOXY
31st March 2011, 14:12
hey guys, i have SDA tees but i'm still not sure whether they're loopwheeled ones or not. i'll post some pictures later tonight, hope y'all can help me :)

please send - most of SDA tees will not be "Loopwheeled" - did it come with SDA price tag higher than their usual Tee's + plus whatever artwork cost?

however that's not a bad thing - their tee quality is great - and maybe they had the jersey made on one of the many other "exotic" antique machines out there in Japan.

maybe I should also post my favourite SDA tees...

mikecch
31st March 2011, 14:12
^ Hey kayodic, most are cotton-sinker loop-wheeled, a few are hanging (sky-hook) loop-wheeled.

FOXY
31st March 2011, 14:43
for this seasonSDA is talking about "Indian Machines" and "uneven thickness" for some of their tees - can it be that they changed the jersey/supplier for those?
it also appears that SDA has used more flatlocking on these than previously...

if have already ordered some when the new range came up for pre-ordering. will post pics once the orders arrive.

kayodic
1st April 2011, 00:55
so are they the cotton sinker ones mikecch?
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j353/kayodic-/sdasda.jpg?t=1301608069
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j353/kayodic-/sda4.jpg?t=1301608069
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j353/kayodic-/sda.jpg?t=1301608069
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j353/kayodic-/sda3.jpg?t=1301608069
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j353/kayodic-/sda2.jpg?t=1301608069

mikecch
1st April 2011, 01:14
^ Yep, "sinkers", which are good quality still.

I think every season they do a couple of models in short & long sleeve Ts with hanging loop-wheeled fabric, but these are special orders and seen mostly at the Summer Display (so not every shop has them, or would order them since they're more expensive) and sized very differently and made with more flat-locking, better ribbing, etc.

kayodic
1st April 2011, 01:21
oh lucky me, i found them on rakuten with normal SDA prices and they're extra small :)

mikecch
1st April 2011, 01:33
^ Cool.
The special editions are these ones:
http://www.pants-shop-avenue.com/SHOP/Da-11S-9510B.html
http://www.pants-shop-avenue.com/SHOP/Da-11S-9510A.html
http://www.pants-shop-avenue.com/SHOP/Da-11S-9494A.html
http://www.pants-shop-avenue.com/SHOP/Da-11S-9494B.html
http://www.pants-shop-avenue.com/SHOP/Da10-9463B.html
http://www.pants-shop-avenue.com/SHOP/Da10-9463C.html

hippopatamus
1st April 2011, 06:02
nice tees kay! love that superpig ha!

obbigood
1st April 2011, 09:35
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j353/kayodic-/sdasda.jpg?t=1301608069


This is NICE!
SuperPig, I like

kayodic
1st April 2011, 13:19
thanks gents, the superpig is my fave as well and those special edition tees are not my cup of tea, i would like to see the typical SDA prints (yes more cute pigs will do :) on those fabric

mikecch
2nd April 2011, 03:55
^ You might like this one:
http://image.rakuten.co.jp/more-net/cabinet/more2/darti4-4.jpg

Reminds me of drop-bears.

hippopatamus
2nd April 2011, 12:28
i like that pig colour tee mike...where to cop?

mikecch
2nd April 2011, 13:09
^ Hey hippo, I think most SDA stockists will be getting this one within a few weeks, if they don't already have it.
I got the pics from Izumi.

FOXY
2nd April 2011, 18:47
sorry, I'm on vacation - can't post pics of my "cute" SDA tees.
but how about a nice Pherrow's tee?

http://s3.postimage.org/21jgq70zo/kaj_021.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/21jgq70zo/)
http://s3.postimage.org/21iv87ikk/kaj_019.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/21iv87ikk/)

kayodic
4th April 2011, 11:41
^ You might like this one:
http://image.rakuten.co.jp/more-net/cabinet/more2/darti4-4.jpg

Reminds me of drop-bears.


ahhh Mike, me likes...... thanks for the info :)

mikecch
4th April 2011, 13:25
^ Cheers.

Was porking it up yesterday:
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7899/p4020024.jpg

hippopatamus
4th April 2011, 17:25
are those pherrow a loopwheeled too fox?

FOXY
4th April 2011, 19:55
don't think so...but nice anyhow!

FOXY
7th April 2011, 19:01
Back home. let's post some SDA tees...

http://s4.postimage.org/2gk9kb944/kaj_009.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2gk9kb944/)
http://s3.postimage.org/i98f86is/kaj_010.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/i98f86is/)
http://s3.postimage.org/i9vkr1fo/kaj_011.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/i9vkr1fo/)

http://s3.postimage.org/ih9u9wxw/kaj_012.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/ih9u9wxw/)
http://s4.postimage.org/2gxjimjtw/kaj_013.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2gxjimjtw/)
http://s4.postimage.org/2gzfbns2s/kaj_014.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2gzfbns2s/)

FOXY
7th April 2011, 19:15
http://s4.postimage.org/2h0fphexw/kaj_015.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2h0fphexw/)
http://s4.postimage.org/2h1662yuc/kaj_016.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2h1662yuc/)

http://s4.postimage.org/2h1oczs9w/kaj_017.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2h1oczs9w/)
http://s1.postimage.org/z84ui3wk/kaj_018.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/z84ui3wk/)
http://s1.postimage.org/z8i2svus/kaj_019.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/z8i2svus/)

hc4thehc
7th April 2011, 19:30
FOXY - where do I get that last shirt?..

FOXY
7th April 2011, 19:34
FOXY - where do I get that last shirt?..

I got it a little over a year ago - had it signed by SDA's GM when he was in HK for the 30 year anniversary event at Take5 - see pictures in Lightning Magazine...

gone by now - maybe Rakuten - I can keep an eye open next time I am in HK - what size?

FOXY
7th April 2011, 19:36
SDA Indigo dyed
http://s1.postimage.org/z909ppac/kaj_020.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/z909ppac/)
http://s1.postimage.org/z9a6xs90/kaj_021.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/z9a6xs90/)
http://s1.postimage.org/za5m5dms/kaj_022.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/za5m5dms/)

http://s1.postimage.org/zafjdglg/kaj_024.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/zafjdglg/)
http://s1.postimage.org/zb7niczo/kaj_026.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/zb7niczo/)
http://s3.postimage.org/j0fhdmv8/kaj_027.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/j0fhdmv8/)

hc4thehc
7th April 2011, 19:40
Anything with a pig on it in size M, preferably indigo blue or pink... 8-)

I'm a check Rakuten as well...

FOXY
7th April 2011, 19:46
well - SDA has got pigs all over the place...

FOXY
7th April 2011, 19:47
http://s3.postimage.org/j1j69ypw/kaj_028.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/j1j69ypw/)
http://s3.postimage.org/j3ezb6ys/kaj_029.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/j3ezb6ys/)
http://s3.postimage.org/j4qxw9ac/kaj_030.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/j4qxw9ac/)

http://s3.postimage.org/j52inoqs/kaj_031.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/j52inoqs/)
http://s3.postimage.org/j5fqygp0/kaj_032.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/j5fqygp0/)
http://s3.postimage.org/j5umsl50/kaj_033.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/j5umsl50/)

FOXY
7th April 2011, 19:53
Anything with a pig on it in size M, preferably indigo blue or pink... 8-)

I'm a check Rakuten as well...

check http://www.dartisan.co.jp/ for current collection
I will be in HK this weekend and can probably get you something...

FOXY
7th April 2011, 20:18
Suikyo / Toranoana
http://s3.postimage.org/j69impl0/kaj_035.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/j69impl0/)
http://s4.postimage.org/2hf88j5yc/kaj_036.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2hf88j5yc/)
http://s4.postimage.org/2hfyp4pus/kaj_037.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2hfyp4pus/)

http://s4.postimage.org/2hhcb94o4/kaj_038.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2hhcb94o4/)
http://s4.postimage.org/2hiuvzkys/kaj_039.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2hiuvzkys/)
http://s4.postimage.org/2hjv9t7tw/kaj_040.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2hjv9t7tw/)

http://s4.postimage.org/2hkf49dr8/kaj_041.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2hkf49dr8/)
http://s1.postimage.org/zrsoin9g/kaj_042.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/zrsoin9g/)
http://s1.postimage.org/zsupvmmc/kaj_043.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/zsupvmmc/)

FOXY
7th April 2011, 20:27
this one is for Max Power - not japanese - non-loopwheeled knit!

http://s1.postimage.org/zt7y6ekk/kaj_047.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/zt7y6ekk/)
http://s1.postimage.org/ztmu0j0k/kaj_048.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/ztmu0j0k/)
http://s1.postimage.org/zu6ogoxw/kaj_049.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/zu6ogoxw/)

FOXY
10th April 2011, 19:51
my latest acquisition - Beck:

http://s1.postimage.org/1vgu6woxw/kaj_052.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1vgu6woxw/)
http://s1.postimage.org/1vk6x50zo/kaj_053.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1vk6x50zo/)
http://s1.postimage.org/1vlivq3b8/kaj_054.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1vlivq3b8/)
http://s1.postimage.org/1vmmkmf5w/kaj_055.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1vmmkmf5w/)

I would not recommend to wear this in Germany...

FOXY
10th April 2011, 20:03
one of my SDA orders arrived today - most probably not loopwheeled or otherwise...

http://s1.postimage.org/1vo3htiys/kaj_056.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1vo3htiys/)
http://s3.postimage.org/1klul93ic/kaj_057.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1klul93ic/)
http://s3.postimage.org/1km7tjvgk/kaj_058.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1km7tjvgk/)
http://s3.postimage.org/1knjs4xs4/kaj_060.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1knjs4xs4/)
http://s3.postimage.org/1ko6xnsp0/kaj_061.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1ko6xnsp0/)

mikecch
14th April 2011, 14:20
My favourite brand for loop-wheeled tops - Cushman's.
Nice and beefy winter clothing, especially their inner waffle-lined sweats/parkas...cannot be beat!

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5457/p1260002.jpg
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv228/CCH_photo/P4140024.jpg

FOXY
16th April 2011, 21:30
mikecch - I have a Cushman shirt and do agree that their quality is very good.

(picked up their spring/summer catalogue - will study.)

FOXY
16th April 2011, 21:31
Samurai Tee - SJOST11-103 - latest acquisition from their current collection

fabric/knitting technology 生地:20/1オーガニックカリブスペシャル強撚S Z吊り天竺Tシャツ 
デザイン:兜
flatlock seams + discharge printing

http://s1.postimage.org/oci2lxms/kaj_011.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/oci2lxms/)
http://s1.postimage.org/odbua6is/kaj_012.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/odbua6is/)
http://s1.postimage.org/ofe9gsqs/kaj_013.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/ofe9gsqs/)

hippopatamus
16th April 2011, 22:29
@FOXY
i know i keep saying this over and over again , but i cant stop saying it . you do got a very nice(good quality) tees collection sir

@mike
i love it!

mikecch
17th April 2011, 02:09
Cheers hippo!
And very nice T-shirt kops FOXY!

I think I'm all good for loop-wheeled tops for now - the remaining winter budget will be going into footwear.

mikecch
19th April 2011, 12:16
More details on the Cushman's hoodie.
Fresh out of a machine wash:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4904/p4190013.jpg
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4953/p4190026.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8353/p4190047.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/62/p4190043.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5103/p4190020.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9504/p4190059.jpg

FOXY
19th April 2011, 13:01
Nice one!
Must be from their winter range.
Love the colour (couldn't wear it myself - too pale).

mikecch
19th April 2011, 13:21
^ Yeah, but only a few shops stock this model - I had to get John Lofgren to special order it in for me.

I do look like little red riding hood, don't I? :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:
The red is actually a very rich, fiery red in reality...I guess lighting was off in my photos.
The colour in the second last pic is the most accurate.
I'll try and get a pic or two in warmer sunlight.

FOXY
19th April 2011, 18:33
^ Yeah, but only a few shops stock this model - I had to get John Lofgren to special order it in for me.

I do look like little red riding hood, don't I? :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


and that's most likely because of the pointy hood!

(now if that hooddy would have been in green and/or purple I would have said evil riding hood...)

FOXY
5th May 2011, 16:32
SDAs - Sinker/hanging sky...
http://s2.postimage.org/15nalx3xg/L1010095.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/15nalx3xg/)
http://s2.postimage.org/15o7oo1t0/L1010099.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/15o7oo1t0/)
http://s2.postimage.org/15p6eyc6c/L1010101.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/15p6eyc6c/)

http://s2.postimage.org/15qbre0is/L1010102.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/15qbre0is/)
detail - under arm seam running into body tube
http://s1.postimage.org/youaknb8/L1010175.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/youaknb8/)

Pherrows - Texas cotton
http://s1.postimage.org/yr4zg004/L1010105.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/yr4zg004/)
http://s1.postimage.org/ys8ocbus/L1010107.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/ys8ocbus/)
http://s1.postimage.org/yt7emm84/L1010110.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/yt7emm84/)

FOXY
17th May 2011, 05:41
since the Loop Wheel machine represents the basic concept I would say it is safe to claim that most American tee and sweat knit manufactures of a certain heritage have used these machines at one point.

unfortunately, I can not tell you the exact point in time when they replaced the inefficient loopwheel machines with modern ones. I would guess sometime in the 1960's, maybe?
(certainly earlier compared to Cones switiching from narrow shuttle looms to modern day looms...)

I got lazy and did some further checking - it seems (based on the chronology of 1 of the main knitting machine supplier here in Germany/Europe) that we can say that by the late 1930s (1935 construction started, 1938 or 1939 machine sales started) the original Loopwheel machines got slowly replaced through the introduction of more efficient "modern" circular knitting machines.
I would assume that over the next 10-20 years the Loopwheel machines became extinct in Germany and Europe and machine supplier stopped producing and catering for them.
maybe I write an email to the machine supplier asking when they delivered the last machines...

FOXY
17th May 2011, 06:01
some more classification

revolving cylinder bearded needle single single-jersey fabric machine:
...
there are two types of circular bearded needle single-jersey fabric machines...
1.the sinker wheel machine or French or yerrot type machine
11.the loop wheel frame or English type matchine
Both have the following features in common:
• Needles are fixed in needle bed
• Revolving needle bed
• Ancillary elements moving yarn and loops along the needle stems
• Fabric tube knitted with its technical back facing outwards
• Less number of feeders accommodated
• Comparatively low productivity compensated by an ability to produce unusual and superior quality knitted structures

FOXY
17th May 2011, 07:00
here is something from the 1911 edition of Encyclopaedia Britannica - obviously scanned through OCR software:
...
Down till almost the middle of the 19th century only a flat web could be knitted in the machines in use, and for the finishing of stockings, &c., it was necessary to seam up the selvedges of web shaped on the frame (fashioned work), or to cut and seam them from even web (cut work). The introduction of any device by which' seamless garments could be fabricated was obviously a great desideratum, and it is a singular fact that a machine capable of doing this was patented in 1816 by Sir Marc I. Brunel. This frame was the origin of the French-German loop-wheel circular frame of the present day. Brunel's frame was greatly improved by Peter Claussen of Brussels and was shown at an exhibition in Nottingham in 1845. This frame had horizontal placed needles fixed on a rotating rim. A few years later Moses Mellor of Nottingham transformed this type of frame by altering the position of the needles to perpendicular. This is now known as the English loop-wheel circular frame. After the invention of the latch-needle there was a revolution in the hosiery machine-building industry, new types of machines being invented, fitted to work with latch needles. Among others there was the latch-needle circular frame, invented by Thomas Thompson, which was the origin of the English latchneedle circular frame, a frame largely used for the production of wide circular fabric.
...
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Hosiery

FOXY
17th May 2011, 07:42
here is one possible explanation why we don't see a surviving tradition of loop wheel manufacturing in contemporary Germany:
...
Until World War II., almost all well-known German manufacturers of warp-knitting machines and knitting machines were located in Saxony. After the division of Germany, there was practically no hosiery machine industry in West Germany. At first, when financial means became available, used machines were imported from England or the U.S.A. The first mechanical engineering companies were not established in West Germany until after the monetary reform in 1948/1949. The Göppingen-based company Boehringer, which began manufacturing Cotton patent machines in 1952, became the most well-known company.
...

check out the site of the virtual German-Hosiery-Museum (http://www.german-hosiery-museum.de/start.htm). obviously the focus is on hosiery, but it gives a good overview of the complexity of inventions within a relatively short time frame. you only have to consider that Loop Wheel Machines are relatively simple compared to the effects that can been achieved with Hosiery Machines.

FOXY
17th May 2011, 08:40
new tees
some of my recent orders have arrived...
http://s1.postimage.org/1rvdsufr8/L1010267.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rvdsufr8/)

Samurai
http://s1.postimage.org/1rvzaty6c/L1010268.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rvzaty6c/)
http://s1.postimage.org/1rwt2i72c/L1010269.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rwt2i72c/)
http://s1.postimage.org/1rxekhphg/L1010270.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rxekhphg/)

SDA
http://s1.postimage.org/1ry6omlvo/L1010271.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1ry6omlvo/)
http://s1.postimage.org/1ryi9e1c4/L1010272.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1ryi9e1c4/)
http://s1.postimage.org/1rz23u79g/L1010273.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rz23u79g/)

because I was bored and curious I took pre- and post-washing measurements...40C, low spinning, little detergent.

Samurai
pre-wash
1/2 Chest 47.0cm
Back length (incl. rib) 60.5cm
post-wash
1/2 Chest 49.5cm
Back length (incl. rib) 60.0cm

SDA
pre-wash
1/2 Chest 49.0cm
Back length (incl. rib) 66.5cm
post-wash
1/2 Chest 49.0cm
Back length (incl. rib) 66.0cm

consistency - minimal shrinkage in back lenght
in-consistency - Samurai enlarged over chest
not sure how representative these findings are, but since we are talking about Tees this is not unusual and of little concern in my case.

hippopatamus
17th May 2011, 17:06
ahh thanks for the further info fox...and damn those samurai tees really sexy! need to cop one i think

FOXY
17th May 2011, 18:42
the Samurai special tees are more loose in in texture and feel very comfortable - if they are not too short they should work just fine - it remains to be seen how they fare over a longer period of wear.

the SDA special tees are much heavier and more rigid, but still very soft. the length should work for most of the taller folks.

TFH special tees seem to be a league in the own in terms of knit fabric quality, softness and execution. I have 2 of their high-end (flat-lock) tees on order - they are another 30-40% more expensive - let's see how they fare compared to a regular special tee.

FOXY
22nd May 2011, 17:55
just saw the new FW2011 catalogue for SDA: 3-4 loopwheeled sweaters/hoodies are planned - price points are around 24.000-28.000Y IIRC

FOXY
13th June 2011, 18:27
2 more tees of interest in this context:

SDA tee - Cotton Sinker/Hanging Sky machine
http://s2.postimage.org/2mem3bb50/L1010300.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2mem3bb50/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2mexo2qlg/L1010301.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2mexo2qlg/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2mft3abz8/L1010302.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2mft3abz8/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2mgba75es/L1010303.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2mgba75es/)

Pherrow's tee - same Texas Cotton and knit as previously
http://s2.postimage.org/2mh039ctg/L1010304.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2mh039ctg/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2mi738dno/L1010305.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2mi738dno/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2minmlulg/L1010306.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2minmlulg/)

hippopatamus
17th June 2011, 10:41
Just aquired this baseball tees by TFH GloryPark
Fabric look like non other i have before

Neck
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/hippopatamus666/IMG_1175.jpg

Sleeve
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/hippopatamus666/IMG_1180.jpg

Back
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/hippopatamus666/IMG_1182.jpg

ThinFinn
17th June 2011, 12:09
TFH t`s are some serious business. loving mine

FOXY
20th June 2011, 21:15
check out some vintage-machinery-made tees out of Germany: http://www.merz-schwanen.com/en/

http://www.merz-schwanen.com/_fl/library/manufacturing-1-1.jpg

Of Nigel Cabourn fame...

I remember seeing these at 14OZ in Berlin last year - didn't think much of them way back then - will try to pick one up this time though...

hippopatamus
21st June 2011, 07:15
those vintage machine were truly beautiful....

FOXY
21st June 2011, 19:53
2 more Samurai tees for my collection:

http://s2.postimage.org/2b6e661k4/L1010343.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2b6e661k4/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2b6upjihw/L1010344.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2b6upjihw/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2b8ljyp9g/L1010345.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2b8ljyp9g/)

http://s2.postimage.org/2b8vh6s84/L1010346.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2b8vh6s84/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2b98phk6c/L1010347.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2b98phk6c/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2b9p8v144/L1010348.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2b9p8v144/)

FOXY
21st June 2011, 20:00
my latest LoopWheeler - Cotton/Cashmere Sweater...
http://s2.postimage.org/2ba44p5k4/L1010349.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2ba44p5k4/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2bdsfox2c/L1010350.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2bdsfox2c/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2be8z2e04/L1010351.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2be8z2e04/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2bf61tbvo/L1010352.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2bf61tbvo/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2bfpw9ht0/L1010353.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2bfpw9ht0/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2bfzthkro/L1010354.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2bfzthkro/)
http://s2.postimage.org/2bg6fmyqs/L1010355.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2bg6fmyqs/)

S-Town
14th July 2011, 07:09
Are there any brands making sturdy, plain, loopwheeled pocket tees? Fil Melange has great colors, but the fabric is fairly thin. The Entry SG (not 100% sure they are loopwheeled) have fantastic colors, but they look to have thin fabric as well. Samurai used to have some great pocket tees (only seen pictures), but they aren't in production right now.

any gems out there???

FOXY
14th July 2011, 08:10
Are there any brands making sturdy, plain, loopwheeled pocket tees? Fil Melange has great colors, but the fabric is fairly thin. The Entry SG (not 100% sure they are loopwheeled) have fantastic colors, but they look to have thin fabric as well. Samurai used to have some great pocket tees (only seen pictures), but they aren't in production right now.

any gems out there???

LoopWheeler do these in Swiss cotton, but they don't to international shipping. see pictures earlier in the thread.
I have used a proxy in the past when couldn't find the time to fly over to Japan, works just as fine...

mikecch
14th July 2011, 10:32
^^ Could try more expensive brands like TFH, Cushman's, Deluxeware, etc...
Or, factory loop-wheeled Ts are around 3000 to 4000 yen a pop direct to public (sorry, no links, it's been a while since I looked these things up.)

S-Town
15th July 2011, 03:10
Yeah, I own shirts by those brands, and they were the first place I looked. However, no pocket tees right now unfortunately, because their heavy fabric is what I'm looking for.

All the pocket tees out there just seem to be really flimsy: LVC, Barns, Fil Melange, Entry SG, Two Moon....from what i've felt, the fabric is super nice and super soft, but I'm not in shape enough to pull off the thin cotton :-). Barns vintage crews are my favorite shirts right now, and the fabric is damn near bullet proof. But their pocket tees are both a thinner material, and in sizes too small for me...

My hunt continues!!!! Thanks for the input.

FOXY
21st July 2011, 10:35
so here are my latest loopwheeled purchases


THF tee 1
http://s1.postimage.org/2rzabsmbo/L1010689.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2rzabsmbo/)
http://s1.postimage.org/2rzdmvbb8/L1010690.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2rzdmvbb8/)
http://s1.postimage.org/2rznk3e9w/L1010691.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2rznk3e9w/)

TFH tee 2
http://s1.postimage.org/2rzu68s90/L1010694.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2rzu68s90/)
http://s1.postimage.org/2rzxhbh8k/L1010695.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2rzxhbh8k/)
http://s1.postimage.org/2rzz4utqc/L1010696.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2rzz4utqc/)

not so sure about TFH underwear, but here they are...
http://s1.postimage.org/2s1167t38/L1010699.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2s1167t38/)

I will post pre and post washing measurements for TFH tees soon, also I have bought a Merz b. Schwanen tee as mentioned previously - expect posts soon.

hippopatamus
21st July 2011, 10:54
i hope that underwear is loopwheeled...where did you get them fox?

FOXY
21st July 2011, 11:51
2nd - Rakuten - had to order them...

hippopatamus
21st July 2011, 14:33
2nd - Rakuten - had to order them...

aha...2nd store , cheers

hippopatamus
21st July 2011, 15:39
ohh yea and how long is the shipping from japan to your place?

FOXY
21st July 2011, 16:19
to HK usually 3 days, to Germany around 5 days
HK - no custom fees
Germany - custom fees...

FOXY
21st July 2011, 16:32
Merz b. Schwanen - this is a replica of a 1960's army tee
http://s2.postimage.org/34rbcubs4/L1010778.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34rbcubs4/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34rmxlr8k/L1010780.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34rmxlr8k/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34uj4gmck/L1010822.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34uj4gmck/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34s54iko4/L1010824.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34s54iko4/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34sgpa04k/L1010825.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34sgpa04k/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34snbfe3o/L1010826.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34snbfe3o/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34sqmi338/L1010827.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34sqmi338/)

hippopatamus
23rd July 2011, 04:27
Fabric look so soft and somehow comfy...give us some fit pic when you got the time foxy

FOXY
26th July 2011, 20:41
Fabric look so soft and somehow comfy...give us some fit pic when you got the time foxy

maybe I'll find sometime tomorrow for measurements, fitting and washing...

FOXY
26th July 2011, 20:42
catch of the day
http://s4.postimage.org/25u72zu90/L1010957.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/25u72zu90/)

first - IHT1115 - new cut, new knit - I was impressed
http://s4.postimage.org/262schqlg/L1010958.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/262schqlg/)

second - Pherrow's (Memphis cotton, if I'm not mistaken)
http://s2.postimage.org/1qssfiq1w/L1010959.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1qssfiq1w/)

third - Warehouse (loopwheeled)
http://s2.postimage.org/1qu4e3sdg/L1010960.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1qu4e3sdg/)

what I usually do with my premium level tees is to take detail shots and measurements before and after washing.

my experience with IH tees so far (1 tee from DC4 and 1 Japan tee through Take5) was very disapointing. after reading on the IH forum that Haraki-san has decided to re-evaluate the tees I was interested enough to wait and take a closer look...
apparently, IHT1115 is one of new generation of tees.
the fabric is much nicer in handfeel - not necessarily heavier - and the cut is different - promissing enough for me to buy it and give a wash!

Size M pre-washing:
Chest - 99cm
Back Length (incl. rib) - 67cm
(drying now after washing - post washing measurements tomorrow)

http://s2.postimage.org/1qxirvgx0/L1010961.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1qxirvgx0/)
http://s2.postimage.org/1qy98h0tg/L1010962.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1qy98h0tg/)
http://s2.postimage.org/1r9dgj0bo/L1010963.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1r9dgj0bo/)
http://s4.postimage.org/26g2at1b8/L1010964.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/26g2at1b8/)
http://s2.postimage.org/1rfszrlgk/L1010965.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rfszrlgk/)

fitwise I have compared it against a European S (DC4 2nd tee) and and Japan S (bought at Take5)
http://s2.postimage.org/1rg682des/L1010975.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rg682des/)
http://s2.postimage.org/1rgq2ijc4/L1010976.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rgq2ijc4/)
http://s2.postimage.org/1rhgj438k/L1010977.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rhgj438k/)
http://s2.postimage.org/1rhosstpg/L1010978.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rhosstpg/)

you can see that a new M has roughly the same chest as an old S, that more length has been added into the upper part of the body (above armpits), the shoulder angle is different (should be more ergonomic, better fit - unless you have extremely straight shoulders) and total sleeve length (shoulder plus sleeve) is longer.
and, yes, Japanese tees are much shorter...

details for the rest...
http://s2.postimage.org/1rtcvaz50/L1010966.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rtcvaz50/)
http://s2.postimage.org/1rtog2elg/L1010967.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rtog2elg/)
http://s2.postimage.org/1ru9y1x0k/L1010968.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1ru9y1x0k/)
Size 38/40 pre-washing:
Chest - 94cm
Back Length (incl. rib) - 61cm

http://s2.postimage.org/1rugk7azo/L1010969.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rugk7azo/)
http://s2.postimage.org/1rujv9zz8/L1010970.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1rujv9zz8/)
http://s2.postimage.org/1ruvg1ffo/L1010972.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1ruvg1ffo/)
http://s1.postimage.org/1dq5dbuis/L1010973.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1dq5dbuis/)
Size 36 pre-washing:
Chest - 90cm
Back Length (incl. rib) - 64cm

ThinFinn
26th July 2011, 22:36
great review...

hollabia
26th July 2011, 23:13
What a great thread, with a lot of great info! Anybody heard of Barns? Saw these in quite a few shops on rakuten... Their site says something about Loopwheel, but as I learnt through this thread this is quite a sketchy concept. ;) Some nice basic tees and hoodies as far as I can tell. Maybe somebody can weigh in...

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/vari/brn-sw-br-3007vr/

http://www.barns.jp/standardproducts/making.html

EDIT: being located in Okayama and using a Union Special for sewing makes them even more interesting to me. :biggrin: Just saw this....

FOXY
27th July 2011, 06:45
Seems like their using vintage knitting equipment. Prices are on the cheap side which makes me hesitant.
Could mean that they are using cheaper cotton, but I guess they are using a different vintage circular knitting machine than what the Japanese consider "loop wheeler machine".
That doesn't make the tees bad.
I haven't seen them in person, but you never know if some of the establish brands source from them...
Worth looking into at one point.
Maybe mikecch has some input?

FOXY
27th July 2011, 09:13
IH-1115 fit pics after washing (sorry for the crappy pics, but I can't be bothered right now...)
http://s3.postimage.org/2ombmqx50/L1010984.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2ombmqx50/)

Size M pre-washing:
Chest - 99cm
Back Length (incl. rib) - 67cm

post-washing
Chest - 97-98cm
Back length (incl. rib) - 67cm

for the following fit pics I did roll up the hem 1.5"/4cm
http://s3.postimage.org/2omljz03o/L1010981.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2omljz03o/)
http://s3.postimage.org/2omttnqkk/L1010982.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2omttnqkk/)
http://s3.postimage.org/2onp8vbyc/L1010983.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2onp8vbyc/)

fit comments:
body sits very well - will see that I get a size S in a different print at one point in the furture for reference.
sleeves and shoulder fit exactly the way I like it due to more ergonomic shoulder angle - will settle with some wear.
body lenght - could be shorter by 1-2", but that's up to personal preference
sleeve - length is ok, could narrower, but again that's up to personal preference

construction:
tube construction - no side seams, neck rib set-in round, shoulder and back neck tape, standard seams

fabric/knit
nice cotton quality, not too light - not too heavy, very soft touch - even after 1st washing, feels almost like enzyme washed and/or very good cotton knitted in Wakayama - trying to confirm if they are indeed loopwheeled...

over all - excellent tee! will by more in the future!

FOXY
27th July 2011, 09:21
post-washing details for the other 2 tees:

Pherrow's
Size 38/40
Chest - 94cm
Back Length (incl. rib) - 61cm

Warehouse/Heller's Cafe
Size 36
Chest - 90cm
Back Length (incl. rib) - 59cm!
this one did shrink a lot in length - the knitting is quite soft, loose and elastic, so there is a chance that it will stretch with further washings.

hippopatamus
27th July 2011, 14:51
So they change the fabric completely on the new IH tees, are they as soft as FH tees? how about the price foxy ? if they improving on the fabric there must a change in price too
fit definately improve from the last tees batch from what im seeing

hippopatamus
27th July 2011, 14:56
What a great thread, with a lot of great info! Anybody heard of Barns? Saw these in quite a few shops on rakuten... Their site says something about Loopwheel, but as I learnt through this thread this is quite a sketchy concept. ;) Some nice basic tees and hoodies as far as I can tell. Maybe somebody can weigh in...

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/vari/brn-sw-br-3007vr/

http://www.barns.jp/standardproducts/making.html

EDIT: being located in Okayama and using a Union Special for sewing makes them even more interesting to me. :biggrin: Just saw this....


Seems like their using vintage knitting equipment. Prices are on the cheap side which makes me hesitant.
Could mean that they are using cheaper cotton, but I guess they are using a different vintage circular knitting machine than what the Japanese consider "loop wheeler machine".
That doesn't make the tees bad.
I haven't seen them in person, but you never know if some of the establish brands source from them...
Worth looking into at one point.
Maybe mikecch has some input?

they are using Unionspecial so the stiching would be chainstitch on tees?
better try them ourselves then...kinda interested in the button tee there...

FOXY
27th July 2011, 15:37
So they change the fabric completely on the new IH tees, are they as soft as FH tees? how about the price foxy ? if they improving on the fabric there must a change in price too
fit definately improve from the last tees batch from what im seeing

Almost!
700HK$ w/o membership rebate

FOXY
27th July 2011, 15:40
they are using Unionspecial so the stiching would be chainstitch on tees?
better try them ourselves then...kinda interested in the button tee there...

Union Special is only the name of a sewing machine company.
They have produced and supplied the industry with a variety of different machines - Barns is referring (and showing) their Flatlock machine (an entirely different stitch type class).

hollabia
27th July 2011, 15:57
x-post from Iron Heart Forum, Boss Talk translation by jimmy


The Simple and New Ones.

It is pretty darn well made. The weight is 7.5oz. Referring to the weight of a t-shirt by ounces is kind of odd, but I think its an Iron Heart like expression.
A regular t-shirt is around 4oz, even a very sturdy t-shirt is about 5.5oz so 7.5oz is pretty darn thick.

It's pretty much a given, but since the material of the body is thick, the construction is sturdy.
The body is made with a method called "Marudo" and there are no side seams/stitching. Each size is made accordingly.

When we decided to make these new bodies, we decided to have the body made in downtown Tokyo and the washing and printing done in Kojima in the Okayama prefecture.
There aren't any particular reason for this, but we felt that we want to support the now rare domestic industry/manufacturers.
The quality is better than we had hoped! Please be excited for them!

FOXY
27th July 2011, 17:32
This is what we know beside the weight:
The knitted Jersey is sourced from Wakayama, the dyeing and sewing done in old town Tokyo and the washing and printing done in Kojima.

Open questions: where is the cotton from and what type of cotton has been used, is it loop wheeled or done by any other vintage machinery (cotton sinker)...

Ooh, and that me likes it!

S-Town
27th July 2011, 18:33
What a great thread, with a lot of great info! Anybody heard of Barns? Saw these in quite a few shops on rakuten... Their site says something about Loopwheel, but as I learnt through this thread this is quite a sketchy concept. ;) Some nice basic tees and hoodies as far as I can tell. Maybe somebody can weigh in...

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/vari/brn-sw-br-3007vr/

http://www.barns.jp/standardproducts/making.html

EDIT: being located in Okayama and using a Union Special for sewing makes them even more interesting to me. :biggrin: Just saw this....

I'm a big Barns fan. I have 15 or so of their tees, including BR-8145, BR-8146, BR-8147, and BR-1912. They claim loopwheel, and the tees are in fact circular knitted. Whether they are made by the actual loopwheel knitters, I have no idea. I am a big fan of plain shirts though, and barns takes care of me there with lots of colors; especially through shops like Vari. I think the Skipper tee is really unique (BR-8147). Their Union Special tees have a stiffer, studier feel to their fabric. I believe their loopwheel pocket tees have a softer hand right out of the bag, but those aren't done with Union Special and look to be flimsier.

hollabia
27th July 2011, 22:35
Some nice info, S-Town! Thank you! Any word on sizing? Their tees seem rather on the small side. I might be able to pull off an XL, but the measurements I saw suggest that these run rather small...

S-Town
27th July 2011, 22:57
I am around a 44 chest, and i do an XL in the vintage tees, henleys, skippers, and waffles. They fit snug in a good way, and are not at all restrictive or feel like they are pulling at the seams. Some of their other shirts, like the pocket tees and sweats only go up to large. I have not tried any of these though. The pocket tees in L look to be significantly smaller, but the Large sweatshirts look to be comparable to an XL in the items I own. AND, the person at Barns that i have ordered from and discussed shirts with said I should be good to go with the L in sweatshirts. We'll see....I have a couple Cushman sweatshirts, and it is going to be hard for me to not purchase those going forward. Both Barns and Cushman are dominating with color selection.

And as far as pricing goes, there really isn't much of difference between Barns and say, Flat Head or Samurai when looking specifically at plain tees. Barns may be slightly less expensive, but I don't know if it is enough to indicate a lower quality of cotton. But a difference in cotton quality may absolutely exist. I am a total sucker for the V gussets on the Barns vintage crews.

FOXY
28th July 2011, 07:40
Merz b. Schwanen - this is a replica of a 1960's army tee
http://s2.postimage.org/34rbcubs4/L1010778.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34rbcubs4/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34rmxlr8k/L1010780.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34rmxlr8k/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34uj4gmck/L1010822.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34uj4gmck/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34s54iko4/L1010824.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34s54iko4/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34sgpa04k/L1010825.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34sgpa04k/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34snbfe3o/L1010826.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34snbfe3o/)
http://s2.postimage.org/34sqmi338/L1010827.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/34sqmi338/)

Pre-Washing Measurements:
Chest - 98cm
Back Length - 66-67cm
Sleeve Opening - 24cm

will wear it today - maybe a fit pic later - will wash tonight

FOXY
28th July 2011, 20:32
http://s1.postimage.org/25dka3qro/L1010994.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/25dka3qro/)
http://s1.postimage.org/25ej0e150/L1010995.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/25ej0e150/)
tee - Merz b. Schwanen (60s Army tee replica, loopwheeled)

FOXY
29th July 2011, 03:45
Merz b. Schwanen tee
Pre-Washing Measurements:
Chest - 98cm
Back Length - 66-67cm
Sleeve Opening - 24cm
...


Post-washing measurements
Chest - 95-96cm
Back length (incl. rib) - 64-65cm

S-Town
30th July 2011, 02:43
Foxy, where did you get that Merz B. shirt?

FOXY
30th July 2011, 05:56
Berlin - 14OZ.

They have a list of retailers on their website...

FOXY
7th August 2011, 18:31
This is what we know beside the weight:
The knitted Jersey is sourced from Wakayama, the dyeing and sewing done in old town Tokyo and the washing and printing done in Kojima.

Open questions: where is the cotton from and what type of cotton has been used, is it loop wheeled or done by any other vintage machinery (cotton sinker)...

Ooh, and that me likes it!

Confirmed by Giles/IH UK: the new IH tees are loop-wheeled and will be limited.

FOXY
9th August 2011, 13:42
latest addition...

Warehouse Tee - Scotty's... - size small

http://s3.postimage.org/21mwzu4hw/L1011207.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/21mwzu4hw/)
http://s3.postimage.org/21myndgzo/L1011208.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/21myndgzo/)

measurements pre-wash
chest - 18/36" (91cm)
back length - 25 1/2" (64.5-65cm)

in the washing machine right now - post-wash measurements soon...

hippopatamus
9th August 2011, 14:27
Foxy you literally bought a beautiful tee everyweek , what do you do for living? robbing bank? invite me sometimes haha but it was a good investment till old days and maybe pass it down the child one day

FOXY
9th August 2011, 14:56
thanks.

let's just say it is part of my job and that my job pays very good lately - hasn't always been that way and most probably won't stay that way forever...

come visit me in Berlin or Moscow if you are in the area.

hippopatamus
9th August 2011, 16:45
Berlin moscow someday ill visit that place

FOXY
10th August 2011, 03:02
latest addition...

Warehouse Tee - Scotty's... - size small

http://s3.postimage.org/21mwzu4hw/L1011207.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/21mwzu4hw/)
http://s3.postimage.org/21myndgzo/L1011208.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/21myndgzo/)

measurements pre-wash
chest - 18/36" (91cm)
back length - 25 1/2" (64.5-65cm)

in the washing machine right now - pre-wash measuremnts soon...

Post-wash measurements
Chest - 17 1/2"/35" (89cm)
Back length - 24" (61cm)

S-Town
13th August 2011, 05:49
Anyone know much about this brand Wa-sey? I've only seen them here at Silver and Gold?

http://store.silver-and-gold.com/?pid=21252574

They are tubular, but not sure about loopwheel. The colors look great though, and at 7 oz. are pretty thick.

They also have what looks to be pique cotton pocket tees as well. Not seamless, but a pretty cool idea. I honestly don't think i've ever seen this done before.

hippopatamus
13th August 2011, 07:42
It could be For the price range i dare to say that they are loopwheeled and the triple stiching on the neck was a nice touch too though

mikecch
13th August 2011, 08:16
^^ 10% poly?
AFAIK traditional hanging loop-wheeler fabrics aren't usually cotton mixes.

FOXY
13th August 2011, 12:44
I think the PES is for the neck rib...
Regarding loop-wheeled or not I think it depends on what they mean by fabric 100% USA - if the yarn is US origin and knitted in Japan: potentially yes - if yarn and knitting is US origin: most likely not.
None of the above makes it a bad tee - most important IMO is the hand feel.

mikecch
13th August 2011, 13:02
^ lol, my bad :tongue:

S-Town
14th August 2011, 06:18
^
And if I am reading it correctly, only the grey is a mix. The other colors are 100% cotton.

FOXY
14th August 2011, 07:54
^ that wouldn't make much sense, but not impossible...

S-Town
15th August 2011, 09:31
I was told by the folks at Silver and Gold that the Wa-sey shirts are NOT loopwheeled, so that clears that up. The person did tell me that the brand name "Wa-sey" is Japanese for "Made in Japan". Kind of interesting....

FOXY
20th August 2011, 07:55
updates...

The Flat Head - "Flatlock tees" - loopwheeled
http://s4.postimage.org/r8qxoxb8/L1011394.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r8qxoxb8/)
http://s4.postimage.org/r8sl89t0/L1011395.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r8sl89t0/)

black - heavier knit, more than 7.5oz. - side seams
http://s4.postimage.org/r8u8rmas/L1011397.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r8u8rmas/)
http://s4.postimage.org/r8vwaysk/L1011400.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r8vwaysk/)
http://s4.postimage.org/r8xjubac/L1011401.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r8xjubac/)

size L

pre-washing
Chest - 50cm
Back length - 65.5cm

post-washing
Chest - 19 1/2" - 49.5cm
Back length - 25 1/2" - 65cm

grey - lighter knit, less than 7.5oz. (but not much less...) - tube construction, no side seams
http://s4.postimage.org/r8z7dns4/L1011402.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r8z7dns4/)
http://s4.postimage.org/r92igcro/L1011403.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r92igcro/)

size L

post-washing
Chest - 18" - 46cm
Back length - 25" - 64cm

pre-washing
Chest - 46cm
Back length - 64.5cm

FOXY
20th August 2011, 07:56
new acquisitions...

Pherrow's tees
http://s4.postimage.org/r945zp9g/L1011405.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r945zp9g/)

Deetroit Nemesis MotorCorps
http://s4.postimage.org/r95tj1r8/L1011406.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r95tj1r8/)
http://s4.postimage.org/r97h2e90/L1011407.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r97h2e90/)

size 38/40
pre-washing
Chest - 18 1/2" - 47cm
Back Length - 24 1/4" - 62cm

Hill Top
http://s4.postimage.org/r994lqqs/L1011408.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r994lqqs/)

size 38/40
pre-washing
Chest - 18 1/2" - 47cm
Back length - 24 1/4" - 62cm

FOXY
20th August 2011, 07:56
Warehouse - Heller's Cafe tees
http://s4.postimage.org/r9as538k/L1011410.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r9as538k/)

Heller's Cafe - Bear Valley
http://s4.postimage.org/r9cfofqc/L1011411.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r9cfofqc/)

size 36
pre-washing
Chest - 18 1/4" - 46.5cm
Back length - 24 3/4" - 63cm

Warehouse - Oregon U
http://s4.postimage.org/r9e37s84/L1011412.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r9e37s84/)

size small
pre-washing
Chest - 17 3/4" - 45cm
Back length - 26" - 66cm

Warehouse - Oreoles
http://s4.postimage.org/r9fqr4pw/L1011413.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r9fqr4pw/)
http://s4.postimage.org/r9heah7o/L1011414.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/r9heah7o/)

size small
Chest - 17 1/2" - 44.5cm
Back length - 25 3/4" - 65.5cm

ThinFinn
20th August 2011, 12:21
Damn damn damn...Foxy is killing it again :)
Great reminder that I need some more TFH t's in my life :-)

S-Town
7th September 2011, 04:53
The new heavyweight plain Samurai tees at Blue in Green look awesome! The knit texture looks really unique.

FOXY
16th September 2011, 10:27
The new heavyweight plain Samurai tees at Blue in Green look awesome! The knit texture looks really unique.

...and so do the Fullcount tees!
Unfortunately, I am not going to be able to sample anything for a while as I have to sort out my life right now.

FOXY
3rd December 2011, 23:26
Got myself the long sleeved version from Merz b. Schwanen last weekend in Berlin. Winter is coming...
Will take measurments before washing.
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/4b0d74bc.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/8d76f89c.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/df10e13b.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/c417c267.jpg

and maybe I will do a comparison with Schiesser soon...
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/6214194f.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/73e369ae.jpg

FOXY
16th December 2011, 14:37
Finally, I found some time to go into some details for my Merz b. Schwanen tees...

Here they are together with a Schiesser tee
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/e506edc5.jpg

The measurements for the long sleeve:
Pre-wash
Chest 44/88cm
Back length 67cm
Sleeve length 60cm
Washing at 60 degrees Celsius right now...

I bought it in size 4- the short sleeved is in size 5.
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/c0219c57.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/a41d83dd.jpg

On the short sleeved tee you can see how the hem line rolled/twisted after a few washes. This is due to the tube relaxing over time and after a few washes.
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/f40c6c1a.jpg

I also noted that the neck line is wider on the short sleeved one.
Furthermore, they did not use an overlock/flatlock for the shoulder seam compared to the short sleeved.
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/076590e2.jpg
The machines used for the Schiesser tee are more state of the art and have a finer setting (spi/stitches per inch). The rib and the knit fabric is nicer on the Merz tees. Probably due to the vintage knitting machinery used. Fit and construction (and certainly the execution) for the Merz tees is pretty much old school. For the short sleeved I have to point out that the seam at the sleeve rib might bee restricting for the stronger build ones among us.
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/502922fc.jpg

kayodic
16th December 2011, 16:11
^so very nice Foxy.... thanks for sharing them...

i have tender hand dyed woad henley (also loopwheeled interlock jersey) http://www.superdenim.co.uk/prodpage.asp?productid=1626
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/384966_10150424728366547_592366546_8482381_7190871 09_n.jpg

hollabia
16th December 2011, 16:12
Does it fit true to size? Superdenim is actually the only store that I know of that carries this one in XL...

kayodic
16th December 2011, 16:18
i wear the smallest size, it fits snug on my body but a bit longer so i'm gonna wear it as "tunic" (i'm short ya know...) :lol:
fabric is so delicate!

FOXY
16th December 2011, 17:57
Been following his thread on SuFu, too.
Maybe one of these days I have to order...

Lovely color - should suit you well!

kayodic
16th December 2011, 22:12
^Thanks Foxy.... those henleys (both woad and log woad dyed) are highly recommended!! fabric is so soft, really love it...
think tender thread on sufu is one of most interesting threads at this moment...

FOXY
19th December 2011, 13:11
Here comes the post-wash report...
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/ecbc83fd.jpg

Pre-wash
Chest 44/88cm
Back length 67cm
Sleeve length 60cm
Washing at 60 degrees Celsius right now...

Post-wash
Chest 43/86cm
Back length 65cm
Sleeve length 58cm

The most obvious thing to report is the slanting, or more accurately the spirality effect that you can see when you look at the hem, front placket and under arm seams.
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/a00d4339.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/a3d3cbcc.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/e17a5852.jpg

This effect is not unlike what has been described as leg twist on jeans.
In knitted fabrics it is called spirality and is considered a major quality concern nowhere days...
It causes headaches in production (cutting on grain line/wales, twisting of seams, especially side seams, matching of stripes, etc.) and is best avoided.
This effect is also present in the short sleeved version of the tee, but has little visual  effect other than the slight displacement of the shoulder seams and the appearance of the hem line. Here however, it becomes more pronounced with the front button placket and the underarm seam of the long sleeves.
Spirality can be caused by the yarns (twist, twist direction) and the knitting technique amongst other influences. Modern knitting technology aims at setting ("fixing") the yarns and/or the knitted fabric before cutting. Often, specific knitting patterns are chosen to because of their slanting /spirality effect to counterbalance a certain twist properties of the yarns (or to pronounce these).

In the case of Merz b. Schwanen I can only assume that the spirality effect is part of the authenticity as they can be found on the vintage tees that they are trying to replicate. On the comfort of the tee this effect has very little to no negative impact.

kayodic
19th December 2011, 13:36
^thanks FOXY... your review quite convinced me to get that MbZ in natural color, really love it.... (think i already posted here http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,797761,00.html)
and if you ask my gender, im a girl who appreciates the finest quality of menswear and carries it in more feminine way ;-)

FOXY
19th December 2011, 14:07
^thanks FOXY... your review quite convinced me to get that MbZ in natural color, really love it.... (think i already posted here http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,797761,00.html)
and if you ask my gender, im a girl who appreciates the finest quality of menswear and carries it in more feminine way ;-)

Hi Kayodic,
Get one - highly recommended. Please be aware of the red version available at Manufactum at the moment.

(the nature of your gender has not escaped my eyes in reading your post or looking at the fabulous pictures you take, but it should not be a matter of importance in such a virtual place like this. but, despite that it surely is a cure for sore eyes.)

kayodic
19th December 2011, 14:29
^i really want this http://www.redwingamsterdam.com/merz-b-schwan-button-facing-long-sleeve-406-natural
but im afraid that the sleeve is tad long for me, oh well i can fold it no?
im much appreciated for your kind words Foxy, will take em as compliment.... TBH menswear inspires me more than womens, it doesnt mean that i dont like womenswear but somehow they have too much gimmicks for my liking or maybe in other words i'm a weirdo or anomaly :lol:

FOXY
19th December 2011, 14:53
Size 3 - XS should be available in most of their models and that's one size smaller than the size 4 I have...

womenswear is no inspiration here in Moscow - so much for certain! Louboutin's are fine, but if everyone is wearing them it becomes boring.

Certain qualities in menswear will allow to focus the attention on the wearer itself rather than on the wearers physical attributes...
(and playing with expectations and established gender roles/concepts can be fun, too.)

FOXY
19th December 2011, 14:58
Shortsleeved ones in size 3 on sale...
http://www.ln-cc.com/men/merz-b-schwanen/icat/merz-b-schwanen/

kayodic
19th December 2011, 15:43
^thank you! i was lurking around and couldnt find that XS size, it's not easy to find it.... might consider the short sleeve...

S-Town
13th January 2012, 06:08
With all the Tender talk, I thought I'd throw it out there that Lyonstate has the logwood and woad Type 350 on sale for $84! Only sizes 2 and 3 left though...

I have both, and the colors are awesome. I wish I hadn't slept on the original woad Type 350 from a year or two ago. The color was quite a bit different. I think it was English woad, with the newer ones being French woad. Still, awesome shirt, and I love the ribbing.

FOXY
29th January 2012, 14:52
Got some Tender Co. tees incoming - details once they arrive...
also got some FullCount tees on order.

Thinking about investing in Waist Twice tees, anybody out there with an opinion?

FOXY
29th January 2012, 15:06
Latest addition to the collection - around Xmas...

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/IH%20WT/097c04fc.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/IH%20WT/ce6d9a1c.jpg

FOXY
2nd March 2012, 21:50
The main part of my spring/summer selection has arrived - maybe I should try to be more reasonable for the rest of the season...

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/4bf2aec2.jpg

Warehouse, FullCount, LoopWheeler/Nanamica, Merz b. Schwanen/Nigel Cabourn, WaistTwice, Real McCoy/Champion, PBJ, Tender. (Most of them should be loopwheeled.)

Need to take measurements (pre- and post wash) over the weekend.

FOXY
4th March 2012, 19:12
Pre-wash - post soak measurements - comments

Champion/Real McCoy - size L
P2P 21.5" - 21.25"
L 28.5" - 27"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Real McCoy/2bd34d72.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Real McCoy/e658a28e.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Real McCoy/77770ce2.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Real McCoy/943dba2f.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Real McCoy/7dd341cc.jpg

So far my experience with these tees have been mixed - size medium is too small, size large is too big. This could be a case of wrong labeling. The fabric is very nice and the fact that it is developed with Champion makes for a good marketing story and a nice piece of authentic tee-history.

Tender Natural - size 2
P2P 19" - 18.25"
L 27.5" - 25.75"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Tender/aa85065c.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Tender/b65fc75a.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Tender/cb52d277.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Tender/1bcbca43.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Tender/1e22aa1e.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Tender/7eea8fee.jpg

Tender Logwood - size 2
P2P 18.5" - 20"
L 24" -23.75"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Tender/7c7bac0e.jpg
Nice dark tone (natural logwood)

Tender Woad - size 2
P2P 18.25" - 18.75"
L 26" - 25.25"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Tender/9e6da6fa.jpg

Nice bright, radiant blue (natural woad) - soft knits, very comfortable.
No shoulder seams, flatlock side seams, interesting construction.
Lower neck line, extended, rugged look.
Altogether the Tender tees are very promising - let's see how they develop over time
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Tender/271fb8a2.jpg


http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/7114ec39.jpg
Warehouse Human Made - size M
P2P 19" - 19.25"
L 26.5" - 26.5"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/286f3d53.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/58693f36.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/8acb26df.jpg

Warehouse Pocket Tee - size M
P2P 19.25" - 19"
L 27" - 25"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/14b62545.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/15c71467.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/6b4c3bcf.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/f81ddc92.jpg

Warehouse Sport Tee - size MP2P 19.5" - 19"
L 25.25" - 24.5"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/8f4c83c2.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/19be0a1c.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/804c690c.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/7827143e.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/7ebb4ea2.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Warehouse/9901660b.jpg

Very nice and soft knits.
Tube construction, no side seam.
Reliably good - one of my favorites: up there with TFH, but softer.
The sport tee has a unique solution for the raglan sleeve - hard to come by these days.

FOXY
18th March 2012, 01:34
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/FullCount/c80e5c5a.jpg

FullCount - size 36
P2P 18.75" - 18.5"
L 24.75" - 24.25"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/FullCount/1ba9921a.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/FullCount/dcaae6e2.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/FullCount/ba47dbc8.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/FullCount/a366ee44.jpg

FullCount - size 38
P2P 20" - 19.5"
L 25.75" - 25.5"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/FullCount/cdaecfea.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/FullCount/67b3534f.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/FullCount/59c11bd7.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/FullCount/c92ccab5.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/FullCount/bbff9f1a.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/FullCount/868343dd.jpg
Knit quality is in-between TFH and Warehouse in weight and softness.
Need to verify if the blue and grey are actually different cotton qualities.
Regular side seam.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Twice/0a6cd7bd.jpg
WasteTwice - size 38
P2P 18" - 18.25"
L 26.5" - 26.5"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Twice/f2da943c.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Twice/9e47544c.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Twice/87494d48.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Twice/7b1119aa.jpg

WasteTwice - size 40
P2P 19.25" - 19"
L 27.75" - 27.25"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Twice/b72a2400.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/Twice/4a19489f.jpg
Nice soft knit, long body length.
Tube construction - no side seam.
Overall feels to long and too tight in over hip - probably the least impressive of this bunch.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/PBJ/a3f5b39b.jpg
Pure Blue Japan - size 2
P2P 19.5" - 20"
L 25" - 25"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/PBJ/47043b6c.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/PBJ/d529ce89.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/PBJ/11ce9874.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/PBJ/a9cf6c77.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/PBJ/b9585642.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/tees/PBJ/277f69a9.jpg
Nice deep dark blue, indigo dyed yarns?
Slim cut, shaped waist line, regular side seam.
Print looks like a discharge screen print.
Very promising - should work fine for me.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/e9277798.jpg
Merz b. Schwanen/Nigel Cabourn - size 5

P2P 18.75" - 18.25"
L 28.25" - 27.25"
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/6bd7948a.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/4ae1f9a4.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/147c9ab9.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/0dedaa89.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/c2f29532.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/ce4da58f.jpg

Knit and trim quality is top.
Tube construction - no side seam, sleeves are set-in straight.
Feels a bit off due to the shoulder padding - something that I guess I will have to get used to.

Got another one...
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/8586c3b8.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/ba999ae9.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/23be7e58.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/MerzSchwanen/be7ae27c.jpg

FOXY
18th March 2012, 13:44
Here is a short subjective summary of my journey so far:

The Flat Head - the knits are outstanding and so is the construction of their tees, the flat seam series is second to none, if you look for heavy knit with a solid, hard handfeel don't look any further

Warehouse/Heller's Cafe/Human Made - the knits are extremely soft and elastic, the grey heather tees are outstanding, the sports tee is unique in construction

Samurai - the eco cotton line is very nice in handfeel and construction

Tender - soft knits, unique cut, nice ribs, interesting dyes

PBJ - interesting yarn dyes and slim cuts

Merz b. Schwanen - knits are between TFH and Warehouse, softer than TFH, lighter than Warehouse, nice ribs and details, authentic undergarments and army/work shirts and henleys

Pherrow's - nice stuff

FullCount - can make nice tees, too

IH, SDA, RMcC, LoopWheeler, etc. are not far behind ether.

Sizing advice: getting the chest size right is usually not too difficult, but back length often is. The right size is often too short!

FOXY
21st April 2012, 12:55
Buzz Rickson Sweat (new fit) Size M pre - post washing
Chest - 21.75" - 21.25"
BL - 24.25" - 24"
SL - 26" (31" incl. shoulder) - 25.5" (30.5")


http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Buzz%20Rickson/de406d29.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Buzz%20Rickson/1ee27255.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Buzz%20Rickson/717b2e03.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Buzz%20Rickson/e521a626.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Buzz%20Rickson/91b79769.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Buzz%20Rickson/d45d8fe7.jpg

S-Town
8th May 2012, 22:41
Has anyone here had any experience with MWS or Groovers tees? I've looked at dozens of pictures, and can't seem to tell if they're even circular knit. The prices seem to be in line with a loopwheeled tee, but could also be similar to a nice cut/sew like Freewheelers. Some of their designs are pretty busy, but also a pretty unique.

Thanks!

FOXY
15th May 2012, 19:59
No idea about Groovers, but I believe that MWS is not Loopwheeled after handling some a few years back...

FOXY
8th July 2012, 10:30
Latest acquisition: 2 tees from Toys McCoy/McHill - size M

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/Toys%20McCoy/1b59b70c.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/Toys%20McCoy/722ec79a.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/Toys%20McCoy/b099d84f.jpg

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/Toys%20McCoy/32a7dea1.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/Toys%20McCoy/6ec075d0.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/Toys%20McCoy/4da00371.jpg

They might not be loopwheeled - will try to check that.

Pre-wash measurements
Black
Chest 20.5"
Back Length 24.75"


White
Chest 19.5"
Back Length 25"

(the black tee has been worn - that might explain the deviation in measurements)

FOXY
26th August 2012, 19:52
more loopwheeled-action - IHSW-06:


http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Iron%20Heart/IHSW-06/DSC01364.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Iron%20Heart/IHSW-06/DSC01365.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Iron%20Heart/IHSW-06/DSC01367.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Iron%20Heart/IHSW-06/DSC01368.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Iron%20Heart/IHSW-06/DSC01369.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Iron%20Heart/IHSW-06/DSC01370.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Iron%20Heart/IHSW-06/DSC01371.jpg


in the washing machine right now - let's see how much it shrinks.

FOXY
10th September 2012, 00:15
the latest additions:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/Real%20McCoy/DSC01450.jpg

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/Studio%20D%20Artisan/DSC01453.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/Studio%20D%20Artisan/DSC01455.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/Studio%20D%20Artisan/DSC01456.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/Studio%20D%20Artisan/DSC01457.jpg

FOXY
28th October 2012, 14:09
2 indigo dyed tees - PBJ and Warehouse

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Tees/c7243f059ba0c9b9ffa9d5db471d3d11.jpg

FOXY
1st December 2012, 14:27
Latest addition - Real McCoy should be Loopwheeled...

National/Inventory Sweatshirt
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/National%20-%20Inventory/94044f91c37c47201ca11ec85cc40b4c.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/National%20-%20Inventory/9d6cee846ebd40f6d98e41995656c554.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/National%20-%20Inventory/f17fc5ff1e2917e528350bb19f92e607.jpg


Real McCoy Sweatshirt
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Joe%20McCoy%20-%20Real%20McCoy/24d5aabeec55870882e9d316d5a33dfd.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Joe%20McCoy%20-%20Real%20McCoy/8d281974b43017831dca445c650d33b3.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Joe%20McCoy%20-%20Real%20McCoy/8015ae882898703abe24b81bae537ed6.jpg
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/KPFoxy/Joe%20McCoy%20-%20Real%20McCoy/d6bf8a22219aa43eecea6cbffa4a1bf8.jpg
The front gussets are for real...